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AlphaQuad
04-08-2006, 11:54 AM
Hi guys I have a little question and was wondering if any of you guys could help me. I have five lnbf's that I want to connect to one receiver, but the prblem is I have a 4X1 diseqc switch will only let me connect 4 lnbf's. I have anothe 2X1 diseqc switch laying around and was wondering is it possible to hook 2 diseqc switches together or not? Any help would be appreciated . Thanks

knucklehead
04-08-2006, 12:44 PM
You could use a 22KHz switch to switch between your 4 way and 2 way diseqc switches PROVIDED none of your lnbs are of the universal type, as they use 22KHz to switch between hi and lo band.
Another alternative is a 12v switch. Some receivers don't have a 12v out option though. You could use a 12v plugpack although this would make it a manual switch between your diseqc switches.

apogee
04-08-2006, 12:57 PM
If your receiver has Diseqc 1.1 then it can support cascaded switches. So for up to 8 lnbs you use an uncommitted (Diseqc 1.1) 2x1 switch and two 4x1 committed (standard Diseqc 1.0) switches.

Diseqc 1.1 supports up to 16 lnbs in total.

AlphaQuad
04-08-2006, 01:25 PM
**UPDATE**
This is what I'll think I'll try for the five lnbfs only my ku's are universal so i'll put them on diseqc port 2,3,4 and for my c-band lnbfs since they are universal I'll have them plugged into a 0/22KHz switch and put throught diseqc port 1 do you think it'll work guys?


i tried it but i wonder why i can't swap beteen committed and uncommitted (referring to settings in receiver )i have 1-4 ports for committed and 1-16 for uncommitted shoulldn't it be the other way around i mean 1-4 for uncommitted choices and 1-16 for committed choices i'm stumped. by the way i'm using a maxplus 9300 stb and both my switches say diseqc 2.0 on them

apogee
04-08-2006, 02:16 PM
Diseqc 2.0 is a bidirectional Diseqc 1.0 switch. You need an uncommitted Diseqc 1.1/2.1 2x1 switch e.g. http://www.spaun.de/html/sur_211_wsg.html

tytower
04-08-2006, 09:52 PM
Apogee can you explain or point to info on the types of Diseqc , 1 , 1.1 , 1.2, 2 and whats the difference between them .

If your receiver has Diseqc 1.1 then it can support cascaded switches. So for up to 8 lnbs you use an uncommitted (Diseqc 1.1) 2x1 switch and two 4x1 committed (standard Diseqc 1.0) switches. Diseqc 1.1 supports up to 16 lnbs in total.

Does this mean 1.1 only come with two out ports or can you get 1.1 with 4 ports out? What is the difference between committed and uncommitted in this useage?

apogee
05-08-2006, 10:12 AM
"How do the different types of switchs work."
http://www.10kb.com/fta/howto%5CHOWTO.htm

tytower
05-08-2006, 11:26 PM
I reckon that info should be kept here in case the link goes down -doesn't say the author. Thanks apogee

How do the different types of switchs work.


First there is a switch inside (almost) every LNBF, it is a Voltage Controlled Switch,
this causes the LNBF to send out V polarity transponders or H polarity transponders,
the voltage in the coax cable coming from the receiver is what switches this switch,
13volts = V/R transponders, 18volts = H/L transponders.
This is why you can NOT simply add a splitter to run 2 receivers from 1 LNB port,
only 1/2 the channels are ever on the cable at one time.
There is one Voltage Controlled switch on a single output LNBF, there are two Voltage
Controlled switches on a Dual LNBF.

External switches:
There are only 2 main switches that work with most if not all FTA receivers and
regular(legacy) LNBs they are:
22khz switch, connects 2 LNBs to one receiver
DiSEqC 4x1 switch, connects up to 4 LNBs to one receiver.


22khz switches, these are really simple, they look like a splitter but are a simple
ON or OFF switch, 0khz and 22khz are the 2 input ports then one out to receiver port,
when you have 22khz OFF in your receiver the 0khz port is connected, when you have
22khz ON in your receiver the 22khz port is connected.
This switch is for hooking up 2 LNBs to one receiver.

The 22khz switch has big brother it is a DTV or 22khz 4x4 switch, this switch has
4 inputs to hook up 2 DUAL LNBs and can be hook to as many as 4 receivers.
2 inputs are labeled 13v,0khz & 18v,0khz (remember the LNBFs internal switch),
and the other 2 inputs are 13v,22khz & 18v,22khz. This allows both polarities from
each LNB to be inside the switch at all times, so any of the 4 receiver can access
any polarity on either of the 2 LNBs.
These switches also come in a 4x8 for up to 8 receiver hook ups to 2 satellites.


DiSEqC is a pulse switch, it also uses a 22khz signal but it uses a one time pulse
to set the DiSEq switch to 1 of 4 ports, these switches come in 2x1 and 4x1 models,
for 2 LNBs to ONE receiver or 4 LNBs to ONE receiver, respectively, these can NOT be
used for more than one receiver, you must use another DiSEq switch for second receiver.
DiSEqC-1 or 2 or 3 or 4 in your menu will cause the DiSEqC switch to switch to that
numbered port, some receivers use A, B, C, D instead of 1, 2, 3, 4.
This "pulse" is only sent once, if the DiSEq switch is to far away from the receiver
it can miss it and not change ports, some times toggling back and forth between channels
can make the change happen, the pulse is repeated each time you change channels,
but moving the switch closer to the receiver can improve its performance.


DiSEqC = Digital Satellite Equipment Control, this was designed for FTA receivers.
DiSEqC switches come in 2 main flavors, Committed(1.0) and Uncommitted(1.1),
but also Committed 2-way(2.0) and UnCommitted 2-way(2.1).
Committed(1.0) switches are the most common and are what come with the receivers.

These switches require FACTORY software in your FTA to operate properly,
1.0 means your receiver can operate Committed switches ONLY,
1.1 means it can operate Committed AND UnCommitted switches,
1.2 means it can operate Committed and UnCommitted plus DiSEqC motor controls.
2.0 is the same as above,
2.0, 2.1, 2.2 but the receiver can also receive information back from the switch,
2.0 switches receive the pulse command from the receiver, then change ports,
they then send back a confirmation to the receiver, if a 2.0 receiver doesn't
receive the confirmation it will send the DiSEqC pulse again and again until the
switch confirms it is on the right port.

Putting 2 DiSEqC Committed switches on one cable is a no-no, which is why there are
Committed and UnCommitted types of switches, a Committed switch is placed first in
line (DiSEqC pulse comes from the receiver so first would be closest to the receiver),
then you can hookup an UnCommitted switch to the Committed switch, the Committed switch
will ignore the UnCommitted switches commands.
Committed 4x1 switches are about $20, UnCommitted 4x1 switches are about $80, so unless
you have to have 16 LNBs hooked up to one receiver stick with Committed switches.

There are no multiple receiver DiSEq switches for Legacy(regular) style LNBs

22khz switches and DiSEq switches can work well together, with one restriction,
the 22khz switch must come AFTER the DiSEq switch.
So you can hook one 22khz switch to two LNBs then hook the output of the 22khz
switch to port 1 on the DiSEq switch. So instead of 4 LNBs you could have 5 LNBs
hooked up, you can add a 22khz switch to each DiSEqC port for a total of 8 LNBs
hooked up to one receiver.


Dishnet Legacy switches, are designated by SW, like sw21 or sw64 these do not use
true DiSEqC pulses so do not work with many FTA receivers, but this is changing.
Legacy TWIN and QUAD LNBs have built-in SW switches so also do not work with FTA receivers


DishPro TWIN or QUAD LNBs, have an internal DiSEqC switch, so EACH port on the LNB has
access to either of the 2 LNBs inside, 110 or 119, DiSEqC 1 = 119 and DiSEqC 2 = 110,
these LNBs require a DP Channel List.

DishPro external switches, there are 2 now, a DP34 and a DPP44, both of these use true
DiSEqC pulses so will work with FTA receivers but you must use DP LNBs to take advantage
of the multiple receiver aspect of this switch.
(The DPPlus LNB does NOT work with FTA receivers, it does not use true DiSEqC)
If you hook up a standard(non-DP) LNB to a DP switch and more than one receiver
you can only get 1 polarity at a time from that LNB. If you just have 1 receiver
hooked up to it, it has been reported to work fine. I have not tested this.


Multiple receiver switches
If you are using standard(non-DP) LNBs you need 1 LNB port per receiver,
it's that simple, if you have a Dual LNB it has 2 ports so you can hook up 2 receivers,
if you want a 3rd receiver hooked up you need a 3rd LNB port.
Single output(non-DP) LNBs can only ever be used with 1 receiver.
But if you have a Dual LNB you can expand it to 4 or 8 or even 16 outputs.
This is done with a Multi-switch, they come in 3x4, 3x8 and 2x16.
You run 2 cables from the Dual LNB to the multi-switch you then have 4 LNB outputs (or 8 or 16),
if you have 2 LNBs you want then you need 2 Multi-switches, one for each LNB.
The 4x4 22khz switch is 2 multi-switches in one case, and you can use these along
with DiSEq 4x1's to setup a multi-satellite multi-receiver system.



C/Ku switch or 0/12v is a voltage controlled switch, most FTAs do not have this option
but some do, these do not work from a coax cable signal as 22khz and DiSEqC do, they
require 2 wires to the switch, the switch has 2 inputs and one output, at 0volts one
port is connected at 12v the other port is connected.
On the back of the receiver will be a GND(ground) and 12v(12volts) this is where the
2 wires to the switch are connected, and there will be an option in the menu
for 0/12v ON or OFF.

More than 4 dishes or lnbs?

Still looking for a 6 way Diseqc switch for Ku Bands!

apogee
07-08-2006, 09:37 AM
i tried it but i wonder why i can't swap beteen committed and uncommitted (referring to settings in receiver )i have 1-4 ports for committed and 1-16 for uncommitted shoulldn't it be the other way around i mean 1-4 for uncommitted choices and 1-16 for committed choices i'm stumped.

IN theory Diseqc 1.1 can allow for 64 LNBFs (16 x 4) but usually only 16 is max implemented (4 x 4).

So if you want to switch between 8 LNBs, you have 2 4x1 committed D1.0 switches connected to 1 4x1 uncommitted D1.1 switch (you could also use 1 2x1 D1.1).

To select LNBF 2, in the receiver select uncommitted port 1 (access LNBF 1-4), committed port 2.

To select LNBF 7, select uncommitted port 2 (access LNBF 5-8), committed port 3.

apogee
07-08-2006, 09:40 AM
More than 4 dishes or lnbs?

Still looking for a 6 way Diseqc switch for Ku Bands!

http://www.emp-centauri.cz/products.php?menuId=4&page=168
http://www.tele-satellite.com/TELE-satellite-0509/eng/emp.pdf